Some VERY INTERESTING and WEIRD Information from the Benchmark Data, TONS more (possibly TU/event) armor, Set Bonuses, and the Continued Erosion of my Sanity
While we work on finishing the weapons, armor, and skills as best we can for sharing with everybody, this particular part is something I wanted to highlight especially.
If you missed it, here's my thread talking about some stuff yesterday about the beta Arkveld, OBT's datamines, and what's upcoming: https://www.reddit.com/r/monsterhunterleaks/comments/1ijjw15/regarding_beta_arkveld_the_state_of_obt2/
Now, If you guys remember that thread I used to say Lagiacrus was confirmed to be in base game due to the armor ID order? Things got REALLY interesting when we looked at the benchmark. If you remember, the final ID present in the OBT was 59. The benchmark makes references to.... a lot more than that.
Naked 1 (labeled as 00) (Naked is underarmor pieces)
Hope
Naked 2 - Naked 2-01 - Naked 2-100
Dosh (labeled 03) - Placeholder (Guardian Dosh) (labeled 03_500)
Bone
Leather
Chainmail
Placeholder (only arms piece)
Chata
Quema
Alloy
Piragill (Legs)
Lala
Congalala
Balahara
Ingot
Bulaqchi
Placeholder (Uth Duna)
Rompo
Dober
Placeholder (chest only piece)
Rey Dau
Nerscylla
Placeholder (Hirabami)
Ajarakan
Damascus
Helm-only mask piece - Comaqchi
Nu Udra
Vespoid
Placeholder (162)
Placeholder (Ebony) (labeled 30_600)
Placeholder (Shiiwuu)
Placeholder (Arkveld) - Guardian Arkveld (32_501)
Placeholder (Waist only- small monster? But has full set in thumbnails?)
Kut Ku
Placeholder (Rathian)
Placeholder (Rathalos) - Guardian Rathalos (sub-value of Rathalos, labeled 500)
Gypceros
Seregios
Lagiacrus
Placeholder (Gravios)
Blangonga
Gore (42)
Placeholder (G Fulgur) (labeled _43_600)
Skipped Value (44) (??? arena reward perhaps?)
Skiped Value (45) (???)
Placeholder (jumps to 46) (FW Ark?) (note- 44-45 are not in the list at all)
Placeholder (47) (no arms/waist)
Placeholder (48) (Chaoshroom?)
Placeholder (49, just a waist piece)
Placeholder (50)
Artian
Placeholder (52) (Legs only)
Death Stench
Placeholder (54)
Placeholder (55)
Placeholder (56)
Placeholder (57)
Placeholder (58)
Placeholder (59, interestingly labeled with _010 and _011 unlike everything else being labeled with _00 and _01 or _50 for GLos/GDosh)
Absent (60)
Absent (61)
Absent (62)
Absent (63)
Absent (64)
Absent (65)
Absent (66)
(Skipped)
(Skipped)
Absent (69)
(Skipped)
Absent (71)
Absent (72)
Absent (73)
Absent (74)
Absent (75)
Absent (76) (has both 76_00 and 76_100)
Absent (77)
(Skipped)
(Skipped)
(Skipped)
Absent (81)
(Skipped
(Skipped)
(Skipped)
Absent (85)
Absent (86)
Absent (87)
Absent (88) (has both a 88_00 and a 88_200)
There's 29 more sets than OBT1 in the Benchmark, including ones labeled with both _00XX and _10XX, AND one labeled with _00XX and 20XX. This sheer amount of sets (this is full sets in the ID list - single piece armors do count for a full set) is huge, which makes me think this is stuff planned for title updates, events, and festivals. Now,
This also is NOT counting Alpha/Beta. Alpha and Beta DO NOT have distinct designs, their ONLY difference is gem slots/skills and as we see later, Group Bonuses. We already checked for that just in case. You can color them differently, though, like World at least:
We were also able to find a lot more. Set 44, one of the two with skipped IDs in OBT1 which we believed to be Zinogre and Mizutsune, is there in fact. It's a single piece - a head piece with 3 points of what we think is Counterstrike, and is one of the last actually ordered sets right now. This makes me think it's an Arena reward head piece like we often get for completing all arena quests. Set 45, however, is not there but is listed in the code. So, that idea seems to be out the window.
Another thing too is that Guardian Arkveld's set IS IN FACT a reskin of the normal Arkveld set (or vice-versa). My original reporting that they had unique sets was wrong, but this is because Arkveld_501 (GArk's) texutre was just NOT in the OBT, no matter how much I looked, I even double checked after we found this and it's not there. So I apologize for getting anyone's hopes up there, but I can only report what I see. Sometimes beta jank gets the best of us.
Now speaking of beta jank - here's the weird part. Notice something missing? Zotia.
I have no earthly idea what's going on with that thing. We can't find its weapons even though it has a series ID. We can't find its armor, the armor set that we would expect to be its set is actually for the guardian small monster em1164_50 (the suspected Guardian Seikret). While SEVERELY unlikely the lack of evidence for anything could point to Zotia not really having any equipment and being a truly 1-off fight. However, this is disputed by there being an equipment series for it between G Ark and Kut-Ku - which we know to be the case for its actual progression. However we really cannot say for certain at this point. Beta jank supreme.
Speaking of 1-off fights, we now have basically confirmation Guardian Arkveld is LR only. Not only does it completely lack a legendary quest (much like how in the beta it cannot be modded to be legendary, at least as we have tried it) - but its armor set order in high rank is AFTER FW Arkveld's. There is a 'sort order', a value that could be presumably changed due to the sheer ungodly amount of sets, but G Arkveld's set comes after FW Ark. This would indicate FW Ark parts are used to make G Ark armor which is further proof of the lack of a HR version of G Ark. So, I rest my case on that.
As a side note, I guess we could start calling GArk "Chained Arkveld"?
Now what about Rose's 2 favorite monsters to mention constantly, Seregios and Lagiacrus? Well, this is the part that is driving me -actually- insane. To be fully transparent I have no idea anymore and a lot of the evidence seems weird and almost contradictory at times. Let's just go through literally everything, point by point. We're gonna go in order of everything regarding these two fuckers.
Everything specifically indicating them:
- Lagiacrus and Seregios are both part of the original Chinese leak, showing monsters that had been set up to be revealed in Capcom's official first-party marketing (hence the lack of Gravios - an IGN reveal), and he did not clarify they were TUs, only Mizu and Zinogre (the latter still being our ONLY indication of Zinogre) - and the Chinese leak has not been wrong yet
- Lagiacrus's Species ID (Leviathan) and Seregios's Species ID (Flying Wyvern) are labeled alongside their EM IDs (em_0046 and em_0077 respectively) in the first beta and in the benchmark
- Lagiacrus's full suite of weapons is in OBT1 and OBT2's files, their thumbnails, all with new looks
- Lagiacrus's male armor is in the OBT textures while sets like Rathian, Gravios, and Hirabami are not, meaning it was made fairly early on
- 10.5 of Seregios's weapons (the SA is incomplete and missing the GS/CB/Lance) are in the OBT files, all with new looks
- Both Seregios male and female armor thumbnails are in the OBT files while monsters such as the above mentioned are not, meaning it was made fairly early on
- There is an empty Series ID after Guardian Fulgur Anja and before Gravios
- Seregios's Icon is labeled E0024, Rathalos is E0023, Gravios is E0025, lining up with the series ID
- Seregios has HRP value of 800 and zenny value just below Gravios and just above Blangonga, lining up with the series ID
- Seregios is a monster specifically cited by the recommended meal file as a status monster in OBT1 meaning it had references even back then
- Seregios has status resistances
- Their IDs are present multiple times in the files, including the list that has Gogmazios as well in the Benchmark
- In the weapon IDs, Lagiacrus and Seregios weapons are put in the middle of other weapons, as would any weapons for a monster in the base game
- in the armor thumbnails, Lagiacrus and Seregios are exactly where you'd expect them based on both weapon orders and Seregios's is in particular right before Gravios, the way it is EVERYWHERE else, this was my basis for saying they were confirmed for base game
- "LagiacrusSwimPoint" was found in the Benchmark, was not in OBT1 or OBT2
- Supplies for the supply box referencing an "em0046 story quest" were found in OBT2, not sure if it's in OBT1
- The files having a specific reference to a count of "31" monsters in OBT1
- Lagiacrus has a specific nest listed as Zone 19 of the Scarlet Forest
- Just to iterate the point again - they have literally more equipment textures/model references in the files ready for them than ARKVELD, RATHALOS, GUARDIAN RATHALOS, SHIIWUU, ICE APEX, AND ZOTIA.
Everything WEIRD with them that is making me doubt my sanity and possible counters to the weirdness:
- They don't have quest files (they hadn't been fully implemented thus quest files had not been updated?)
- They don't have size data (this one is definitely just "they weren't done yet")
- They lack turf wars entirely (this one is definitely just "they weren't done yet")
- They are not on weapon trees yet in OBT1 (not complete yet? Lots of stuff seems to be missing from those)
- They're at the bottom of the sort order for the hunter's notes (unsorted?)
- Lagiacrus's icon is listed as E0000 (the ? monster icon) (Icon wasn't programmed yet? Seregios's was already set as 24)
- Despite Seregios having a status meal, Lagiacrus does not have an element recommended meal (That list in general is quite strange and stuff like Rompopolo, Blangonga, etc are also not listed in status/element etc)
- While being present on the OBT1 monster data, and the Benchmark's monster data (benchmark being the 'newest' thing out of the 3 by when it was made), Lagiacrus and Seregios were removed from the monster species data in OBT2 along with a ton of other scrubbing and stuff done in OBT2 (this could just be scrubbing but it's specifically weird to do it for OBT2 and not the benchmark, and just those two?)
- The Player Profile widget data that lists monster names does not list Seregios or Lagiacrus but does list everything else
- They have no armor pieces in the benchmark nor do they have set bonuses or skills (neither does Zotia - could just be drawing from OBT file references)
- They have no weapon stats we can find in the benchmark (neither does Zotia or any generic blast/sleep weps to fill in for Nerscylla and Ajarakan/Gravios which would leave the game without sleep or blast weps for multiple categories which I don't see happening if they made Paralysis weapons to fill in for Lala Barina - could just be drawing from OB1 data when it was made, as the specific weapons in the benchmark data are ALL the ones from OBT1's weapon trees)
- In the sort order, they're put in there in the like 200s, while for reference FW Ark, the last monster, is 120 (it skips from like 120 to 200+ so maybe that's the "unsorted" section but it could also be a TU section)
- Despite Lagiacrus having a nest in the Scarlet Forest, the area seems hidden and not present on the map (could work like Vaal Hazak's nest in World or could be because it's a TU and thus not implemented - but Iceshard's map was also missing in OBT1 so who's to say)
Then there's also that fucking "26" number that's really unexplainable without it seeming weird or wrong from the crown trophy data, this could literally be used as a data point FOR or AGAINST Lagia depending on how you look at it because there's 29 monsters that have data to scale, so let's look at those again just because it's relevant;
- 26 = incomplete number, beta jank, will be different on full release (very possible)
- 26 = GArkveld has no scaling size and Lagiacrus and Seregios are TUs (GArk does not have a fixed size tag to indicate this)
- 26 = incomplete number because Lagia and Sere have no scaling data, and it'll be really 28 or 29 (depending on if GArk not being fixed size is intentional or just beta jank)
- 26 = Guardian Rathalos, Doshaguma, and Arkveld share crowns with the base species like pre-World variants and pre P3rd subspecies, and Seregios/Lagiacrus are base game (this is my preferred answer)
- 26 = total crowns required instead of "all crowns" so TUs can count towards it (but why not 25, in that case?)
Either way, shit doesn't add up and it's too frustrating and confusing and annoying and disheartening to feel like you have figured it out only to just be more and more confused and get more contradictory information so I'm just gonna hedge my bets and say I don't know. There's overall more evidence that they're in the base game than not, but I can no longer say it's a guarantee and I'd rather say that NOW than be wrong in a week or two and us get a trailer that says "First free title update Seregios and Lagiacrus" or something - and if that is really the case then I apologize, but I do still feel ULTIMATELY that it's way more likely that they're basegame than TUs given what IS there seems to indicate that such as the texutre ID order, their gear being so complete relative to other monsters (like more than Shiiwuu, more than Zotia, more than ARKVELD) and the weirdness COULD just be beta jank. I have been back and forth on these two and I'm still ultimately more confident in Seregios than Lagia. A lot of it hinges on if orders are finalized or not and given an indev game there could be plenty of things re-ordered but a lot of stuff seems rigid... but the chinese leaker who has been accurate did not list them as TUs... but he could have missed that or been wrong and human error is always there.... see how this can lead to a circular logic issue? It's maddening. They're still like, 95-99% base game, but still, that little % feels like more to my autistic brain.
I'm gonna just call it on those two for the sake of my mental health (due to my hyperfixation and tendency to obsess it is genuinely affecting me a lot more than someone 'normal') and wait. We'll see in the next couple weeks and I'll either have peace that I was always right or peace that while I was wrong, they'll come eventually and WILL be in the game, and that I never gave into doomery but I'll just have to wait.
On a lighter note to close out, I will share some of the interesting stuff about set bonuses.
This is the full list of set bonuses we have currently identified:
So it seems like quite a few monsters are given set bonuses in this game like World. Even Blangonga, which was surprising to me honestly. What these set bonuses are is not certain, as it's just numbers and we don't have descriptions. Every set bonus is a 2pc, and 4pc bonus. 3pc bonuses are subsumed entirely into Group Bonuses. Let's take a look at those as well:
This is all the group bonuses. It looks like Alpha series armor, including LR armor, uses the "standard" group bonus, and Beta series armor uses the "B" group bonus, which does seem to have different effects, but what they are cannot be identified. This makes it look like alpha and beta armor will have a bigger play into building than we thought.
What monsters have these group bonuses and how are they determined, you may ask? It's based on the monster's integument. Their hide, their skin etc. We believed at first it was family group bonuses, eg amphibian, bug, wyvern, etc. But, that is not the case, it is based MOSTLY on the monster's hide type with some exceptions.
- Leathercraft = Present on monsters with squishy/stretchy skin, such as Chatacabra, Rompopolo, Gypceros, and Shiiwuu
- Scaling Prowess = Scaly and shelled monsters, such as Balahara, Quematrice, Rathalos, Yian Kut-Ku, Gore Magala, and Gravios.
- Insect Group Skill = For Lala Barina, Comaqchi, Bulaqchi, and Nerscylla.
- Inspiring Pelt = Monsters with fur or hairlike filaments, such as Congalala, Doshaguma, and Flying Wyvern Arkveld, interestingly. Despite being hairless, It does seem Ajarakan has this bonus.
- Guardian = for all guardian monsters, but also Artian armor and the guardian small monster.
- Apex = The inclement Four, specifically.
- 174 appears to be on armor like death stench and other such fashion/later game non-monster sets. Not exactly sure what it is or means and does not seem to have an alpha/beta equivalent.
We're still figuring out the other skills and some various weapon stats like exact ones that have 3 3 1 slots instead of 3 2 1 when maxed and all the sharpness and handicraft values, and that will be coming later. Credit to u/alxnns1, u/DukeLukewarm, u/STRCoolerSimp and cola and u/ScubaRec0n from the modding discord for helping sort this out thus far and for prior help w/ other stuff referenced in this topic.
Just to add an addendum on the Lagia thing as I said, I do still think lagia and sere are basegame, I'm just no longer 100% confident, just like 90%. But, with how my brain works, that 10% feels like 100% and I'm worried I will have let people down.
In short;
I hate beta jank. Give me Lagiacrus or give me death.